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Trouble with Homeowners Claim

Posted by MikeR 
Trouble with Homeowners Claim
November 13, 2007 04:56AM
We had a storm rip 1000 s.f. off our roof Aug. 10th, 2007. We lost a family room, the kitchen, the laundry room, and a store room in our garage. Farmers CRT (catastrophe response team) adjuster estimated our damage at $21,000. Being in the building trades for over 20 years, I knew the remodeling would be upwards of $50,000. I questioned him about the estimate, and he said things like, "your tile (kitchen had matching wall, floor, and counter tile) can be taken off, cleaned and reinstalled" and " I know of no law that says upper and lower cabinets have to match" (kitchen cabinetry had a custom stain and finish. Our bases were ruined by water, the uppers sustained minor sheetrock damage).

I knew then, I would be in for a long march with this company. We were bounced around to three different adjusters we could only contact by phone, until Sept.27, when Andrea Boothe, a local Tucson adjuster came to our home with a contractor (to "answer techical qwestions"winking smiley for a site visit. Her contractor wanted to submit a bid for the work. Not wanting to appear that I was trying to hold up the proccess, I agreed. The contractor submitted a bid in line with Farmers CRT estimate. I already had two bids, one for $46,000 & one for $50,000.

Checking the contractor with the Az. Registrar of Contractors, I found the contractor had THREE open investigations, two for SUBSTANDARD WORK, and one for collecting UP FRONT money from a customer that Farmers was paying the contractor. In that investigation, ANDREA BOOTHE was mentioned in the complaint as being a party to a meeting between the customer and the contactor, as the customer tried to resolve the issue. And Ms Boothe brought that contractor into my home!

Other highlights of my claim:
Farmers water remediation contractor told me Farmers authorized them to pull up our wood floor (it had to go, it was under an inch of water). I advised them to get a proffesional flooring co. to do the work, as I did not feel their crew had the skill level or the tools to do it. What we were left with was a floor full of splinters for TWO MONTHS! Farmers finally got a second contractor out to strip the floor in Oct. and they STLL HAVE NO COMPLETED THE WORK as of this posting.

Our first ALE (aditional living expenses) check was timely and accurate. Then it took us SIX WEEKS to get another check! Every ALE supplement since has been late and short. We also discovered Farmers WILL NOT PAY FOR TIPS WHEN YOU ARE FORCED TO EAT OUT because you have no kitchen. All reading this in the food service industry, take note!

Our origional two contractors backed out after hearing of Farmers Bull****. During the time we were getting bounced around between adjusters, I was busy getting specialty trades estimates to justify supplemental payments for constrution items. One of Farmers tactics is to respond like lightning, lowball you and stand proud and profess what superior service they render. You then have to put your life on hold and work at justifying every penny you are entititled to....but I digress...

When, after weeks of negotiations with Farmers, they would agree to a supplemental for an item, they send us a very creative worksheet in which they double deduct depretiations and the amount they approve is not the amount they,ve agreed to.

It is now November 12th. The damaged portion of our home is still damaged. We still eat out every day. Farmers today informed me they were denying our claim for the insullation, drywall, and tile estimate. I have an e-mail submitted, asking for their reasons and the person responsible for the denial. Meanwhile I need to sollicate other bids for for the carpentry portion. It, amazing how many contractors want no parts of an insurance claim...well, not really.

Anyone wanting to see documentation of the assertions made in this post, or want to share your story, please feel free to contact me at: mrobinsatm2hvac@q.com

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2007 04:02PM by administrator.

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Re: Farmers delay tactics Nightmare with farmers Insurance
November 14, 2007 06:41AM
Talking to these people is like talking to a wall.
Take a look...
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Robins
To: jeremy.debry@farmersinsurance.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Robins claim #1010630537

Mr. Debry,

For the love of God man, what is so difficult about giving us a simple unit allowance for six line items?

Your denial of Pantera Builders bid forces us to again go through the process of soliciting bids for the six items we are requesting.
We cannot afford to wait while your company finally gets a comprehensive view of this claim. We already have three pounds of paper.

There are some small issues to iron out, regarding payments for items already under contract, but they are not critical at this juncture.
Nothing else can happen until the drywall goes up. The six items we are requesting need to happen now. Give us what unit pricing you feel is just, and we will have a benchmark for prospective contractors. We have the CRT estimate. We have the estimates from your pet contractors. We have every damn piece of paper and electronic communication since August 10th. What we don't have is sheetrock on the walls.
We implore you, PLEASE give us what Farmers wants to allow for these six items, along with a demolition unit cost.

Thank you,

Michael Robins

P.S. Please call me tomorrow morning at your earliest convenience to discuss this.
----- Original Message -----
From: jeremy.debry@farmersinsurance.com
To: mrobinsatm2hvac@q.com
Cc: andrea.boothe@farmersinsurance.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Robins claim #1010630537

We will be reviewing all contractors' detailed estimates that we have on
file. Since Panterra's estimate is just a portion of the claim and is not
broken down into square footage, linear footage and cost per trade, it has
been denied. We will be providing you a breakdown as requested below in
Xactimate pricing which breaks all items down specifically both by trade
and by unit pricing. We will also be including estimates/invoices from you
that have been previously approved by us and paid. We will be doing this
for the entire claim to give clarification of everything approved. Once
this is completed and approved it will be sent to you with an explanation
and any ACV supplemental checks. You will then know exactly the total cost
of the claim which includes the ACV and RCV amounts and line items for each
amount. Overhead and Profit will be included in this final figure. At
that time, once you have received all of that information, you can let us
know if there are any discrepancies. Trying to handle this claim in
different pieces is obviously not working, so an entire approval of
estimates and invoices in file (which have been approved) will determine
the final ACV and RCV of the claim.


Jeremy DeBry
Property Claims Supervisor

| | "Michael Robins" |
| | <mrobinsatm2hvac@|
| | q.com> |
| | |
| | 11/13/2007 01:12 |
| | PM |
| |
| To: <jeremy.debry@farmersinsurance.com> |
| cc: |
| Subject: Re: Robins claim #1010630537 |

Mr. DeBry

Respectfully sir, what we asked for in our response is what is most
urgently needed at this time. What is on our list is unresolved and is
holding up the entire restoration . What is on the list is what we need
immediately. other issues can be resolved AFTER THIS!
Please provide what we asked for and do not further delay this process any
more by trying to reconcile the entire claim, at this time. . THIS WILL
ONLY DELAY our restoration. WE DO NOT want to pass another holiday with our
home in this condition! There is NO REASON for it. Please respond to this
e-mail today.


Michael Robins
----- Original Message -----
From: jeremy.debry@farmersinsurance.com
To: mrobinsatm2hvac@q.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Robins claim #1010630537

We will be sending a breakdown of all approved invoices as well as total
payment to this date for building repairs. If during compilation of this
information, it is found that a supplemental payment for ACV (actual cash
value) is needed, it will be made at that time. I will email you once
information is compiled, processed, approved and sent.


Jeremy DeBry
Property Claims Supervisor

| | "Michael Robins" |
| | <mrobinsatm2hvac@|
| | q.com> |
| | |
| | 11/13/2007 05:55 |
| | AM |


| To: <jeremy.debry@farmersinsurance.com>
| cc:
| Subject: Re: Robins claim #1010630537


Mr. DeBry

In response to your e-mail, we require a breakdown of what your company is
providing for the following items:

1) Allowance per square foot of floor tile $_____________

2) Allowance per square foot of wall tile $_____________

3) Allowance per square foot of countertop tile $_____________

4) Allowance per square foot of insulation (specify for ceiling and wall)

5) Allowance for drywall (specify ceiling and wall)

6) Allowance for paint per square foot (specify # of primer coats)

All unit prices to be total unit costs and be inclusive of overhead,
and all job related costs.

We expect a timely response, as you verbally relayed to me that you are
anxious to close this claim. We too, share your feeling and are confident
you will give this the highest priority.

Most Sincerely,

Michael Robins

----- Original Message -----
To: Mike Robins
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:29 AM
Subject: Fw: Robins claim #1010630537

----- Original Message -----
From: jeremy.debry@farmersinsurance.com
To: mebyaya2@msn.com ; andrea.boothe@farmersinsurance.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Robins claim #1010630537

Andrea and Michael-

In reviewing both my inbox as well as Andrea's inbox, neither of us
received an email on November 7th, or around that date. If you could
resend that email, it would be greatly appreciated.

As for Tucson Commercial Carpet, Andrea spoke with them last week and we
gave them approval to finish of the removal of the flooring. They told
Andrea that they would contact you. I am having Andrea call them again
today to follow up. I'd suggest you call them also to set the time for
them to come out to finish the removal process.

As for the supplement for Pantera Builders, we are still waiting for the
information that I requested in a phone conversation with Michael a short
time ago. To sum it up, there are so many requests, re-requests and
"errors" in payment, to the point where nobody knows exactly what is
requested. In talking with Michael, he stated that the cabinet payment
miscalculated. From my understanding, we paid directly off of the
submitted to us. Michael also stated that the flooring was
I reviewed the flooring #'s with Andrea and gave the approval. I
from Michael an overall summary explaining how much is being requested in
total for the repairs to the house. How we would like the overall
to look would be as follows:

Pantera Invoice: $______________________ this amount pays for repairs
__________, __________, ____________ and ___________. (then attach
Cabinet Estimate: $_____________________ this amount pays for
___________________. (then attach invoice)
Flooring Estimate: $_____________________ this amount pays for
___________________. (then attach invoice)
Counter top Estimate: $___________________ this amount pays for
___________________. (then attach invoice)
__(other)__ Estimate: $_____________________ this amount pays for
___________________. (then attach invoice)
__(other)__ Estimate: $_____________________ this amount pays for
___________________. (then attach invoice)
__(other)__ Estimate: $_____________________ this amount pays for
___________________. (then attach invoice)
__(other)__ Estimate: $_____________________ this amount pays for
___________________. (then attach invoice)

Total Being Requested: $____________________

By doing this, we can all be on the same page and know exactly how much
being requested. We can then subtract out all previous payments,
out your deductible and subtract out the recoverable depreciation....then
we will know exactly how much needs to be paid. Then when we make
to you, there won't be any suprises and we should be in complete
If there is a change in your cabinet estimate or your flooring estimate
you stated, we need to know why they have changed....what was originally
left out. Again, we need estimates for ALL items in this list so that we
can make one final payment. If you have any questions about this, please
let Andrea know.


Jeremy DeBry
Property Claims Supervisor

| | "A ROBINS" |
| | <mebyaya2@msn.com|
| | > |
| | |
| | 11/08/2007 07:30 |
| | PM |


| To: <jeremy.debry@farmers.com>
| cc: <brain.murphy@farmers.com>
| Subject: Robins claim #1010630537


Dear Mr. DeBry,

We did not receive a reply to our e-mail dated yesterday November 7th.
Please advise of steps taken to secure a date for Tucson Commercial
and the status of the supplement submittal for Pantera Builders
in our e-mail. Please respond as soon as possible. Every day adds more
stress and hardship to our family.


Andrea and Michael Robins

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
November 14, 2007 08:37PM
As a continuation of my last post, I was contacted by Jeremy DeBry, Tucson Claims Supervisor, at 12:09 today after I left a voicemail (note in the last post We requested that he call us in the morning).

I again requested that Farmers send us unit costs for the six items we need.
Mr. Debry stood firm in his intention to review and reprocess the entire claim.
I again explained the urgency of acquiring the uresolved allowances. He replied that a Mr. Robert Rief of Pro Techs Restoration could start tomorrow. If we did not use Mr. Rief, there would be a week delay while Jeremy DeBry has our claim reproccessed

Here's where it gets good.

We sollicated an estimate from Mr. Rief as one of the three contractor we called at the beginning of our claim. We were not impressed with him. 3 to 4 weeks later, we recieved his bid. It was broken down by line item on an Exactimate format, but the unit costs and price extensions where deleted and a lump sum total was provided. (Remember this, it's important).

We thought nothing more of Mr. Rief until the week of Oct. 21st. On 10/22 we submitted our bid from Pantera Builders for the Demolition, insulation, drywall and wall tile. It was a high bid and unitemized, but we had a quality contractor willing to work an insurance claim.

No action was taken by Farmers all week.

After 20 phone calls to Andrea Boothe that Friday, Ileft two messages for Mr. Debry. He called me back late that afternoon. He expressed his concern that our conbtractors bid was too high and was out of line with the three estimates he had. I stated that I knew of only two, the CRT estimate from Farmers, and thier estimate from A&E Flood Svcs. Mr. deBry informed me that he had a bid from Pro Techs (we never submitted that bid, nor did we authorize Mr. Rief to do so).

I asked to have a copy sent to me. Lo and behold, the bid sent to Farmers was an unedited copy with unit pricing and extensions using the same bull**** lowball unit pricing Farmers uses.

Farmers had Pro Techs bid since 9/16, never informed us of it, and pulled it out a month later to use it to dispute our contractor.

Back to my conversation with Mr. Debry today, I asked him for anything we could use as a benchmark to show contractors. He said we could use Mr. Riefs estimate. I asked for e-mail conformation of that and he refused. He also denied Pro Techs was a prefered contractor, that he was "someone we ran into and uses our estimating program."

So to sum up:
We never submitted Pro Tehs Restoration's bid

Mr. Rief submitted the bid to Farmers without our knowledge or consent

Mr. Rief uses Exactimate

Farmers never notified us they had Pro Techs bid until it suited thier purposes.

We can start putting our home back together tomorrow if we use Pro Techs

If we don't use Pro techs, we have to wait a week for Farmers to tell us what they are doing.

We will have to start the bid sollicatation proccess all over.

Christmas is 41 days away.

I am stressed.

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
November 17, 2007 07:16AM

The latest tactic Farmers is using is to pick away at the scope of work and to threaten us with a deadline for cutting off our ALE.
As with all e-mail threads on this post, read from bottom up.

Mr. Robbins-

Per my follow up phone call with you on Wednesday, I reviewed
Pro-Techs Xactimate estimate and a question arose regarding the removal of
the drywall. From my understanding, and from our conversation, some of the
drywall was previously removed by Service Master which has all ready been
paid for by Farmers Insurance. I called Pro-Techs and confirmed that the
drywall as well as the insulation had been mostly removed and that he
should have only used the replacement pricing instead of the remove and
replace pricing for most of these items. This would have equaled a
duplicate payment for the removal of the drywall and insulation. The
Xactimate estimate that you previously received (I have also attached it
below for your convenience) from the Farmers adjuster is the estimate that
you should be referring to which will show you how much money has been
allotted for the different trades. This estimate is broken down by room
and by line item pricing based off of square footage and linear footage.
Also, per our conversation we will be providing you a Xactimate estimate by
Friday, November 23, 2007. It will combine all of the approved bids and
invoices into that single document as well as a list of all known repairs
paid to date to help reduce any misunderstandings. Included in that
Xactimate estimate will be all approved invoice prices, line item prices,
and a breakdown of the financial numbers including the recoverable
depreciation. This will consist of the approved cabinet and flooring bid
that were previously submitted to us. I will be calling you next week once
we have finalized the previously mentioned Xactimate estimate with the
approved invoices included. If there is a payment due at that time, a check
will be attached to the estimate. To date you have been paid $26,236.92
for the items on the Xactimate estimate as well as supplemental payments
for your roof, board-up, fence, cabinets and flooring; so all repairs
should be underway at this time.

In order to recover the withheld depreciation you must provide all
receipts showing the total cost of labor and repairs once the work is
completed. A reinspection of the completed work will also be required for
final release of the depreciation.

In regards to your Additional Living Expense (ALE), it was discussed
that your cabinets will be available in two weeks. Once received the
kitchen repairs should be able to move forward. We have extended ALE
benefits since the loss occurred and will extend benefits until Jan 15,
2008. Should the kitchen become functional prior to this, ALE benefits will
cease at that time. As with the original requests, you must submit
receipts to support the costs that have been incurred.

If you have any additional questions, please let me know.

(See attached file: 1Robins 8.22 Xm8.pdf)


Jeremy DeBry
Property Claims Supervivisor

Per our conversation yesterday, we have not received an e-mail concerning
Pro-Techs Restoration. Is their pricing going to be the standard from which
you are going to base your allowances from?
Please reply

Michael Robins

ServiceMaster only cut away what drywall needed to remove soaked insulation. In addition, when our wall tile is removed the drywall behind it will be ruined.To be more precise, the paper will come of the sheetrock. I can only assume that it is Farmers contention that on of thier rat contractors can come in, put up a bunch (by that I mean a BIG bunch ) of patches and try to float around 2000 square feet of drywall. Hey! That'll look special, don't you think? I suppose they'll just pu the rock over thethe small truckload of nails sticking in the framing. So Mr. Jeremy DeBry wants to
take all the demolition money out of our claim now.

Oh yeah, our cabinets are almost ready so we can eat at home starting Jan. 15th.
That makes me so happy!!
That means Farmers is going to stop screwing us around as of 3 weeks ago! Why am I writing this post. My problems are all solved now!

Now if I can just get him to spell my name right...

P.S. I could use An attorney to write a cease and desist letter to Mr. Robert Rief of Pro Techs Restoration
Mine is unavailable till after Thanksgiving...

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
November 22, 2007 11:03AM
Best wishes for a joyous Thanksgiving to everyone!
The Robins family

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
December 08, 2007 10:10PM
In regards to the claim above:

As of 12/04/07, Farmers Insurance has agreed to pay for tip expenses incurred.
As of 11/23/07, Farmers Insurance has included a portion of required demolition in their Xactimate estimate.
There is no inference, expressed or implied that there has been a settlement of this claim.

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george rodriguez
Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
July 09, 2008 10:41PM
If you involve your insurance agent in the claims process to answer any questions,and let the conctractor do their work,according to estimates given by the adjuster.If estiamtes are to low or certain items are not taken into consideration,the contractor will contact the adjuster,and the company will pay the additional amount.
Regardless of what company you are insured with,if you don't follow these simple suggestions you will always have a diffcult time.With the proper procedure and the assistance of your agent,your claim will go smooth,and you will not be wasting your time "belly aching"...

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
July 26, 2008 02:21AM
What is it,exactly,that you do for a living?

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
August 05, 2008 06:33PM
I am a victim of the Windsor CO tornado, sounds like I'm experiencing the same
schtick you are. 3 months later, my house is sitting it is "uninhabitable"
I have so many unbelievable comments, who knew that a corporation would get away
with such blatant ripping off. They ignore me, I am on my 2nd claims adjuster,
why haven't you sued?

Talking to an attorney in a few days.....

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
October 05, 2008 06:02PM
Dear Mr Jeff Lozi of Farmers Insurance Group:
Our family wishes to thank Farmers Insurance Group for the list of services to our family from the date of the fire loss which devastated our lives and critically altered our life as we and our children had known it for 18 years. My family and I are requesting an extension for both the repairs to the fire loss structure, as well as the replacing of our content. Under normal circumstances, we would not ask for additional time to replace fire damaged house content, and time to complete repairs to the fire damaged structure, but circumstances have been anything but normal.
As things so often go, there have been a number of issues of serious concern to us. One such issue is the letter Eldon Lewis wrote to us which stated that Servicemasters restored our belongings. This is in error. The fact of the matter is that we hired the professional services of public adjuster David L Griffith of Sound Loss & Claims on behalf of the fire loss which we experienced, and within approximately 6 weeks from receiving his billing statement, paid him his fee in full on the ACV, plus a check from Farmers toward the content, which was an over-payment, because he took the entire amount, and we were told by our attorney that he was entitled to 10% on amounts Farmers Insurance Group paid out. Then when he asked for it, Farmers paid the remaining balance "WITH INTEREST" to him, though the depreciation had not evene been paid out yet. This was illegal and we feel that Farmers should restore this sum of almost $400 in interest. We request that Farmers Insurance Group replaces this illegally depleted amount to our fire loss settlement as soon as possible.
During the first week that we hired David L Griffith of Sound Loss & Claims, he over heard remarks from Servicemasters staff that their intent was to deal with the house content in a dishonest way, cleaning items that could not be cleaned. In fact he stopped them from placing smoked items in boxes and fired them. Then for the next six monthes as he investigated the case, he took control of the fire-loss house content and submitted paper work for the settlement. We were not allowed to to to the warehouse where content was held. We requested that money not be wasted on dry clothing based partly on chemical sensitivity as well as information given by David Griffith as to the ineffectiveness of ozoning. This inability to access house content due to it's condition forced us to purchase out of pocket, new bedding, household items, art supplies for my work, home school supplies, teaching tapes for our theological and art education, praise and worship music we use weekly and musical insturments used for family worship, family clothing items, our child's toys, house plants and other necessary items.
In addition, since Farmer's Insurance preferred contractor did not even tarp the fire damaged residence and the emergency tarps installed the day after the loss had badly deteriorated, we had many out of pocket expenses for materils of this sort, cleaning supplies, dumping charges for truck rental and debris removal, lawn mower rental, garbage bags, and many other items. We paid sanican and utility bills not paid by the contractor. We paid to dump Belfor's OSB, plastic and other debris they left us with. With their knowledge of what it takes to culture mold, they'd used OSB to cover floors, with layers of brown craft paper to supply the cellulose for it to eat and plastic.
Our shed was broken into during the fire loss month, in spite of a padlocked door, and camera items and a leather camera bag were stolen. We filed a police report which later disappeared. Servicemasters later called us to state that they had one of the cameras labeled with our name. By then we said that we'd take it back, only if they wrote a letter stating the situation as it occurred, because we'd filed a theft claim. It's been like "dancing with wolves" just wading through the years following the fire loss and the professionals we have had to deal with, although I realize that we knew so little about what a loss of this magnitude entails.
Sound Loss & Claims criterion for the total loss fire loss included the structure's rebuilding. The content items were smoked, and thus suffered discoloration such as clothing, which included a full length fur with a badly smoked lining and the hairs of the fur itself were impregnated with smoke. Drapes and sheers were grey. Furniture with foam cushions, and wood in which oils retain smoke odor and varnish or painted surfaces of furniture and other items that becomes impregnated with the smoke smell and discoloration and darkens, woolens in which the lanolin causes the odor to be retained, metals which are pitted, char damaged items, and damage created solely by fire hose suppression, such as furniture.
The air in the home hung heavy for monthes with vapor moisture and Servicemasters left my husbands and my theological library and our childrens homeschool educational materials on shelving for a long time, so an expensive library of books smelled of mildew or mold so that 300 boxed contents of contents were totally ruined. Our little daughter's toys and homeschool books were moldy and ruined, so we have replaced various ones and are still in process of replacing our daughters Ami and Zani's clothing and other belongings, which encompass a variety of clothing sizes and school grade years as we'd saved these for sharing in the future. Our attorney Richard Sindell requested that we conduct an inventory of the house content in 3 storage sheds housed at the Everett Self Storage where Service Masters took the content, with standing ashes and severe water damage.
Our family observed from the inventory list that the clothing inventory was severely minimized, distorted and highly inaccurate so as to lower the ACV payment which was paid to us and David L Griffith's firm, Sound Loss & Claims for services rendered, and we endorced and surrendered as payment to him. In fact it appeared to us thatinsurance record photos purposely were staged so as to avoid centering the focus upon the actual loss, such as the large number of art canvases piled in a mountain in our daughters room. Instead of photographing the mountain of stretched canvas materials themselves, boxes of soggy and sooted photos, piled of magazines such as years of Victorian magazine and others used as art references, insurance pictures isolated smaller groupings of these items or omitted them altogether.
Our insurance policy states we have the right to restore or replace. The public adjuster wrote that he did not favor restoration. The odor of the items and the sight was even worse than the public adjuster described to us, and we were unable to complete the inventory as it was a danger to our family health. We do not want our families health endangered. No content inventory was ever shown to us other than the erroneous clothing inventory. I faxed receipts for three years of art supplies amounting to some $35,000 and later discovered another $5,000 which I think was omitted from our list, and this is verified primarily by Mastercard billings of several art supply stores. Servicemasters called the 225 ml tubes of oil paint heat damaged. The charred, smoked, sooted and fire hose suppressant damaged stretched canvases were left as debris in the upstairs north bedroom of the fire loss, together with cases of 300 lb and 140 lb artwork, which David Griffith felt would be cost prohibitive to send out to Eastlake Gallery for restoration.
A local appraiser told us had a minimal value even as decorative art if these were giclees, and not oil, watercolor and acrylic paintings, as these were. And nothing prepared us for the nearly complete lack of pre-fire information supplied by Farmers Insurance Group itself, such as the "replacement cost" being used primarily to transport content slated for destruction, so as to severely deplete settlement monies needed to replace items. Agent Wyn Ayers told us the average homeowner had approximately $110,000 in content and that $128,000 would cover needs that should arise. Insurance company clients expecting coverage, are surprised to see furniture not slow dried with driers, or salamander driers which could have been brought in to dry the home to prevent further damage to the structure. Instead, as we paid the mortgage on the fire loss, our home was treated as "an acquisition" by the professionals hired to serve us in this time of need, and the entire process delayed, so as to increase financial pressures on us. The humidity at the fire loss with droplets filled with charred debris was so bad it made lungs burn for many monthes.
We entrusted our home to your companies expertise. It was undervalued and the public adjuster had to cope with a policy that fell below what was actually needed to rebuild. Three estimates came in between $250,000-$300,000. In addition, Belfor bid for $235,000, included paying the Mexican help $4.00 per hour and reusing fire damaged materials, so they gutted the house and quit. But not before they wrote to Farmers requesting that the ACV check we'd endorsed and paid them with be revised, and Farmers removed our banks names, and inserted theirs, so they could state they'd never been paid for services and they placed a lien against our house that lasted for a year, while inflated materials skyrocketed.
Belfor served Farmers in useing their water damage expertise by not even tarping the house after we signed their contract, and it appeared to us that there was a notable attempt to "insurance destroy" our home so as to severely limit or endanger the fire loss settlement. We hired an attorney to help us regain the ACV check so we could stop this "round robin" series of endless revisions which prolonged the repair process till 3 mos after the fire loss year was up. David Griffith called these maneuvers "trickery" and that's so say the least.
It took 15 mos to simply get the ACV check, which was revised at least 6 times, into our mortgage banks escrow account for the fire damage repairs. The past 2 1/2 years of my families lives have been spent in dealing with the dis-services done to us in not "putting us back where we belong" as your motto states in a timely manner. We requested an extension of living expenses, though we realize that the loss of use was $55,000. Eldon Lewis continued to parrot the phrase that this amount was used up. However our request was not based on the Loss of Use amount expended, but on Farmers Insurance Group's "revision game" that frustrated our every attempt to mitigate the damages and extended as well as increased our own out of pocket expense now into 2 1/2 years. It's untennable for you not to take responsibility for this. Secondly, the effectiveness of our mortgage bank, in receiving the ACV check so late due to all the "stalling off" payment, was criticly hampered in it's ability to serve us as they are so adept at doing through their Property Loss Dept.
The prolonged 2 1/2 year process since the fire loss been exhaustive. Yet on paper work, it appears that Farmers "paid out" the loss in a timely manner, in spite of the fact that this dirty trick was pulled on us, in which we endorsed the August 2, 2006 ACV check believing repairs were being paid, only to see the ACV actually with held from the mortgage bank for 15 mos or till after the fire loss year. This was confusing to my family, gave rise to a multitude of threats and fears of the intimidation. This appears to us to have been a maneuver of Farmers Insurance Group to avoid paying out our fire loss to us as clients, though we sent in receipts far beyond what was paid to the attorney and public adjuster. You over paid him, and have not paid us and this is unfair.
Don't be afraid to empower us as clients with cash to replace the drain on finances created by the fire loss. Because nothing has been any more oppressive to my family--and it smacks of the "Corporate Terrorism" that we have read a great number of Farmers Insurance Group clients complain of. Whoever was dribbling the ball over there, slowed our attempts to mitigate the damages to a crawl, by keeping the ball too often out of our reach, for what? We've been told that the reason is that this places a financial bonus in Farmers Insurance Group's employees pockets. No matter how we trace it back, it always seems to end with Farmers Insurance Group and the check revisions, and other procedures. From August 2, 2006 when the public adjuster of Sound Loss & Claims received the $137,300 ACV he asked for, the revisions continued but the ACV remained the same. So what's the deal? What are we supposed to think? Your literature states that it's expected that the process will take no longer than one year. In a survey of our public adjuster's clients, the longest time it took to rebuild was one year from the date of loss, and usually just 9 monthes or so.
As stated it's not that our family is not appreciative for the areas in which Farmers has assisted us since the fire loss. It's the perplexing questions regarding these other issues which continue to haunt us. Why was the policy itself so filled with inaccuracies, such as wrong square footage, wrong information as to the foundation, omitting things like our balcony, and other errors too numerous to mention. The Belfor Construction bid listing workers wages as $4.00 and replacing the home's inch and a quarter marble counters my husband put in for a gift to me in the kitchen and bath with "plastic laminate, and replacing the historic home's original doors and fixtures with cheap contractor specials, or retaining the fire damaged items for reinstallation" in spite of the fact that the Kilz which contractors slather over still damp walls, to subdue fire odor, is ineffective, and odor returns when the deodorizer called Micron dissipates. Moreover, it can mask dangerous black mold and makes it difficult for other services to work, such as plumbers and they have complained of this to us. One insurance contractor told us that his company painted Kilz over alligatored wood. THis could prove dangerous with a heavy snow load, but does save money on lumber. The repair process has dragged on so long that the kids in our neighborhood that used to love coming to our house for after-school and summertime crafts projects now think our home is now a "haunted house."

Have A Happy Halloween

Alana M Campbell
2153 Shy Bear Way NW #412
Issaquah, Wa 98027
(425) 391-8487

---------[ Received Mail Content ]----------
Subject : [FW]Code Upgrade Insurance
Date : Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:13:47 -0400 (EDT)
From : "Alana Campbell" <adazio@lycos.com>
To : <jeffrey.losi@farmersinsurance.com>

---------[ Received Mail Content ]----------

Subject : [FW]Code Upgrade Insurance

Date : Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:59:37 -0400 (EDT)

From : "Alana Campbell" <adazio@lycos.com>

To : <jeffrey.lozi@farmersinsurance.com>

Dear Mr Lozi:
We would like to thank you for your work on behalf of our fire loss claim. We have received a recent letter delivered by the DHL courier to our temporary residence from adjuster Eldon P Lewis of Kansas, stating that the recoverable depreciation amounts to $85,200.00. However we fail to see how this amount together with the $137,300 amounts to the fire loss settlement of $241,000 that Farmer's documents over the monthes since May 1, 2007 state that we will receive. It appears that there's another $20,000 or so that cannot be accounted for. Would you please look into this for us? Do we have the incredibly shrinking "depreciation" or what?


Alana Campbell
2153 Shy Bear Way NW
Issaquah, Washington 98027

---------[ Received Mail Content ]----------

Subject : Code Upgrade Insurance

Date : Wed, 03 Oct 2007 21:10:03 -0400 (EDT)

From : "Alana Campbell" <adazio@lycos.com>

To : <eldon.lewis@farmersinsurance.com>

Hi Mr Lewis:
We have been in the process of obtaining repairs for the fire loss. Though the ACV check was written at the end of March, the public adjuster David L Griffith refused our attorney Richard Sindell's counsel to endorce it in a timely manner. We were finally able to pick it up June 4, 2007, about a week after our attorney stated that it was ready. You mentioned this event in a letter in the file you had mailed to us. We thank you for the work which you have done on our behalf, but the "shady stuff" involved involves more than the robbing us the ability to receive our fire loss settlement in a timely manner, but has been an unnecessary loss of our financial investment through your cooperation with unscrupulous companies, the loss of our time, and loss of enjoyment, the loss of a substancial portion of our ministry to the community as ordained ministers, the loss of our influence and our reputation, by making us look like a "poverty case" to the entire neighborhood when the loss has not been repaired and we have been made to appear uninsured, as well as the loss of our emotional sense of well being, with the miriad of professional procedures generated by your June -July 2006 insurance procedures in which our public adjuster who is no novice attempted to protect our family from "mold damage" to our health and home" by fighting for a new roof on the fire loss.
Farmers Insurance worked against the public adjuster's fire repair plans after we hired him to protect us, by sending a representative to our city Mayors office as well as the city building dept. to limit the roof repairs to a small front roof portion, so the building dept now states to us that "black mold" is outside their jurisdiction, but they feel we should nevertheless retain the moldy roof system because "you stipulated" several things early on concerning . Farmers Insurance does not have the right to subject our family to a dangerous health hazard by trying to control our wise and prudent use of the repair funds. Your procedures are highly dangerous and injurious to insureds.
Due to this David L Griffith trick, we were not able to find a fire repair contractor sort of "sitting on his thumbs" with nothing to do during the summer monthes. Finally as Sept 2007 wore on, we have had some "takers." After much manipulationof our fire loss funds, many battles and lots of discouragment, we have persevered however and have most of the repairs lined up. Though the insurance fire loss settlement now totals $241,000 thanks to you "Good Samaritans" and looks like it's been increased, in actuality what the Wells Fargo Property Loss Dept finally got is significantly less than what our public adjuster stated we had coming for fire repairs to the property they hold "first rights" to as our mortgage company.
Concerning these fire damage repairs, not only have repair costs gone up on everything since the fire loss of May 1, 2006, and the delays which all that "money manipulation" of you "fire management players" has allowed Farmers to keep the settlement in their bank account till the final hour, this has has significantly increased building costs. The contractors of course are charging in the bids for code upgrades, which the Everett building dept requires. David L Griffith the public adjuster of Sound Loss & Claims stated that our policy at the time of the loss included code upgrade insurance of over $18,000, and this of course would be most beneficial. Griffith told us that there is "inflation guard" as well, and this will be necessary for us to complete adequate repairs to the property. We saw this "insurance bundling" clearly described with the $231,000 amount.
You said at the time of issuing the settlement of $231,000 that we have an additional 5% of the settlement for debris removal and yard work. We will need help with the yard because it's a big mess. Belfor left a good deal of their debris in the interior of the house for us to dump, which included the OSB they installed over hardwood flooring. Requests for them to remove this went unheeded. And since they did not tarp the roof when they signed on in August 2006, but left the tarp job you'd hired, which had become like cheesecloth, there was of course a substancial amount of water intrusion to the home. Namely stachybotrys tests done by Enviroshield showed "black mold" scores higher than any the technician had observed in his entire time in business.
Besides this, Belfor used some cheap plywood paneling to cover the dining room windows during their demo that was clearly not new but from some old jobsite, and this was most likely the source of the "black mold," which appeared to not be on the ceilings, but in the vicinity of the Belfor floor coverings of plastic sheeting and wood particle board. It was interesting that it appeared rather rapidly on the OSB in the fall of 2006, while the floor under it appeared ok. And tape lift tests on the living room ceilings showed no black mold. This moldy window covering which darkened the room and created an ideal environment for the mold to grow was not removed when the job was done. The floor covering Belfor installed of plastic and OSB, included a thin layer of Kraft paper to provide a convenient and nutricious source of nourishment for the stachybotrys as well. Then they left all of this debris as an additional bio hazard to subject our family to when they pulled up stakes and moved on. All we heard from them was in the form of invoices stating "Pay us what you owe us." Tom recently took approximately a ton of fire debris to the dump.
Interestingly enough, when we were first given the Belfor bid in about August 2006, Bill Pontius had written an additional $5,000 amount on the base amount at the end of the bid in his own hand with an ink pen. Then in negotiations with them for some mold remediation, would you believe that they said they'd be happy to deduct $5000.00 or this exact amount hand written or added to the bid from the invoice they'd sent to us to pay. It certainly looks to us like they carefully and methodically planned this entire mold thing to the proverbial "T." With all of the finessof fire and water damage professionals who utilized their knowledge of mold taught in the hundreds of hours of classes Bill Pontius says he sat through.
At any rate, after the major mess that Belfor made of our repair schedule, by using the agreements made with Griffith to further damage our home etc, we are now a year and a half after the fire loss, in the process of having the home repaired. It appears Farmers Insurance, Sound Loss & Claims and Belfor worked together and tried to circumvent the Wells Fargo Property Loss project. Farmers removed the bank names from checks mailed to Griffith, who had initially listed the banks on his Proof of Loss form that we we paid him to submit. Then Dave Griffith held control of the repair funds for some 13 mos till the house was made "good and moldy " with Belfor Construction's assistance.
While we were trying to get one of you helpers to truly address the needs of us "fire victims," during this time we continually heard during this time was "it's not our problem." Griffith said: Don't call me! You talk to the contractor from this point on. (After contract was signed) Talking to Belfor was an exercize in futility. When roof repairs didn't commence in a timely manner, they stated we could drum up some contractors. When we found some good bids, our contractors said Belfor wouldn't return their calls. When we called you, you said: You have an adjuster, so we aren't authorized to speak with you. The WOIC said: We don't handle public adjuster or contractor disputes.
Belfor placed an illegal lien against the property, in spite of their contract which made us responsible only if our insurance company denied our claim, in spite of the fact that they knew that Griffith had the repair funds when we signed the work authorization. We'd also faxed them a copy of the payment to Sound Loss & Claims on the ACV, because Griffith promised to release authorization for them to begin repairs. We didn't come to Belfor begging for any favors, but knowing Farmers had paid out the settlement Griffith held. Griffith "pay on demand" of his total fee on the ACV, was not in line with Farmers procedure of paying out repair funds in three phases with inspections to protect all parties. Griffith became to obsessive and oppressive in collectinghis debt, that he was extorting us on money we didn't owe him yet becauseit hadn't even been paid out.
Our being forced to hire Sindell & Associates to determine the amount we owed slowed the payment process into the first week or so into October 2006. Griffith wrote "gobs" of nasty slanderous letters saying that we were basically deadbeats who were trying to rob his of his fee. However, he was actually "overpaid," by several thousand dollars more than we owed him to date. You included these poison pen letters of his in the file, along with an email to Trevor McManon about our attorney bill not being paid yet. However, the agreement with the attorney was that we'd pay if we got a content settlement, or with a refinance when repairs were complete. Our attorney seemed perplexed that you possessed all this info concerningour client relationship with him. So in this documentation of misinformation of yours in our insurance file you added some malicious slander of your own, because this suited Farmers Insurance purposes. This colored our attorney relationship as you planned, and probably that of the Wells Fargo Bank as well, with whom we'd been clients in good standing for many years. And in turn caused a certain attitude to be held towards us.
We were told by Griffith that Farmers was "not our friend" for selling us a policy that failed to insure the structure for 100% to value but demanded this as prerequisite for collecting living expenses from the "Loss of Use" portion of the policy. All the way along we were expected to buy the proverbial "pig in a poke" from Farmers, who was telling us our living expence was running our, and creating a good deal of stress for the family for monthes. Griffith, who expected some $30,000 but bailed out of fulfilling many of his duties. And Belfor who we think probably took on the job to split the take or possibly to use Farmers in there as a partner for profit sharing.
The lien Belfor placed against our property prevented us from hiring any one to repair the property, and has till now. But it was an illegal lien. The Wells Fargo Bank is still working on payment to Belfor, who in our estimation worked with Farmers Insurance Company, and David Griffith in one of the biggest scams we've ever seen. House cooking to create more damage to repair was just part of it.
We have now spent a sizable amount on mold testing and remediation of the "black mold" with 3 or more companies. Our children and us haven't died yet. We presented our plight to you in person when you visited Issaquah and took us to dinner some weeks back. We resent you all using a bio-hazard like "stachybotrys" against our family to further your cause and make us compliant or try to gain possession of our property, or the properties of other Farmers clients. As I told Attorney Richard Sindell, we are Americans and the U.S. Constitution guarantees us freedom from tyrrany. Especially that of bio terrorism. And we don't mind taking our cause all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Your company slandered Melinda Ballard and family calling her the "Mold Queen," when her 2 year old was coughing blood from the black mold and her husband lost his job. You may have cheaped her loss, but Farmers launched her mission and ministry to the Policy Holders of America. With fire contractors like you hire who create an environment that's hazardous to families, your refusal to renew our policy taught us that your motive was possibly in our best interests. My family is not intimidated by insurance tactics aimed to defraud the insureds and destroy the health of families. But don't blame families for "fighting back." We have reason to believe that we're part of a string of losses that have some insurance company foul play involved. We have been the unwitting "victims" because we took out a policy in the first place in "Good Faith." But we do not feel that you have done all in your power to "indemnify" our loss, but have witheld what is legally and morally that which the policy guarantees.
Neither do we feel we should be punished for the fire loss, which both the fire marshall and arson investigator stated was not our fault, though a number of Farmers procedures have treated us with less than that which we would expect from a company we paid premiums to for some 20 years, and Tom's father probably longer than that. All things considered the bundled hype from Farmers-Griffith and Belfor Construction reminds me of the stuff used on servicemen by the Viet Kong. While we understand that fire losses are difficult enough to get through, we did not need the situation exaggerated by "Farmer's HELP POINT PROGRAM" which promises to "Get You Back Where You Belong!" Our home didn't even have water damage in the stud walls because the stud walls are the variety that go all the way to the top of the roof. I asked Belfor to try to save the over $100,000 worth of original lime plaster because plasterers charge plenty, and this could have been done leaving several walls in place, or by opening one side of a wall. Then Belfor bid a cheapened form of the plaster which a plasterer told us was scab labor and not real plastering techniques. This was neither like kind and materials or appropriate craftsmanship.
The Farmers preferred fire loss contractor YOU hired to do the emergency tarping of the loss stated that the floors had "grey water" damage from fire hoses, which is certainly the direct result of the fire-loss. So it was perplexing to us that Farmers refused to contribute even the modest amount of mold relief that we know you are capable of contributing. Dave Griffith assures us that fire loss victims move out within two years. Hope Griffith isn't holding his breath.
Our current need is for Farmers Insurance to pay to us the various provisions in our May 1, 2006 policy, including the inflation guard protection, code upgrades of $18,000 plus, 5% additional debris removal and additioanl 5% for yard work as soon as possible so we can get on with the repairs of our property that we took out an insurance policy with Farmers to insure. Though we have a settlement now in the Wells Fargo restricted escrow account, please outline to us the way to pay the miriad of contractors necessary to restore the total loss of our home. The lapse between the ACV and the depreciation recovery is somewhat hazy as we attempt to be responsible toward completing these home repairs. Please send a copy of my letter to Jeff Lozi and Greg Lutrell. Thanks!

2153 Shy Bear Way NW #412
Issaquah, Washington

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
December 09, 2008 10:05AM
More trouble than I have time to detail right now but VERY SIMILAR circumstances except that our claim was on a rental property which we paid extra to have Loss of rent coverage. No one said a word to us about this coverage. Had 2 water damage claims within 3 weeks. Had to pay 2 deductibles EVEN though no work had been started on first claim!!
Now I have the "Contractor" wanting us to sign over a check to them (2 party) for DEPRECIATION. Say what?! They billed Farmer's over $7,000, were "suppose" to receive @ $5,000 paid to us, they didn't complete 1/3 of work, billed us for entire amount and we continue to go round and round.
Any help would be appreciated.
We are in Phoenix, AZ

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
December 10, 2008 12:44AM
well to start with, you should have 2 deductibles. Your policy is a per occurance policy. Also, if your policy is ACV, I think your contractor has a right to collect the portion not paid by the company for depreciation and/or your deductible, but not this soon. I think I would go to another contractor. I guess I dont see what your issue is here?

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
January 01, 2009 04:47PM
Got a cancellation OUT OF THE BLUE now for homeowner's on rental because unoccupied. NO KIDDING - the general contractor never finished the work so my husband did and then the G.C. had the NERVE to "explain to me" how HE was entitled to OVERHEAD, TAXES AND PROFIT on work MY HUSBAND DID OR WE HIRED OUT!! I kept 3 of them explaining for 3 HOURS (I have a B.S. in Business), got worn out and worn down, went home (this after TELLING THE OWNER 3 times I WAS LEAVING MY HOUSE (rental) to which the reply was, "Not until you sign THIS check!" No LIE!! I NEED an attorney!! Can I sue the G.C. for "heck, I don't know" and then the idiot tells Farmer's the entire "project should have taken 2 1/2 months (wait his company took 7 and didn't finish!!! So we were reimbursed for THOSE lost revenue months (the 2 1/2!!!)

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In response to this issue you posted and everyone dealing with Farmers have any of you been forced to fill out a W-9 for reimbursements ? We are not employees of Farmners and should never have to fill something like this out for them. When you pay for a policy there are three major catagories most people know little about...they have padding for their buddies they bring in not telling you how much is actually available..your claims adjustor is making some serious money the more he can keep you from obtaining your fill allotment to rebuild to replace and to survive until your life is back to normal..if this is possible. If you are seeking replacement go through the internet and find three items of the same and average them out....antiques and keepsakes hold their value. Rebuilding was something we dealth with that Farmers lowballed so bad it was insulting.The owner in our situation which was a house fire was elderly, alone and with beginning onset dementia. He didn't get direction (oddly enough)from the fire department nor Red Cross coming out to help him on a Sat, am fire. He did not call his brother about it until Sunday and slept on the floor of the burnt home. We came out and went through papers to find the insurance and called in a claim. We were to meet with the agent at 1 pm Monday. Getting this gentlemen into a friends home for the night the agent called him and not the power of attorney telling him to come and meet him at 11 am. He did, we came at 12:40pm to find him sitting alone in the drive way of his burnt home telling us the agent came and went already. The agent did not leave a dime for him to stay at a hotel or help this man at all. He did not even call his brother ( power of attorney to change this time of meeting) he intentionally set this old man up from the beginning. The agent also did his own inventory list......how does he know what is missing, burnt or stolen ? He did his own estimate on rebuilding at $35,000 $20,000 cash if he walked away. We brought in estimators we trust and they had the estimates at $97,000-$98,000 to rebuild. A big difference. Everything seems to be a challenge with this agent on serious matters. This is also a situation I wondered how they would handle had this man had no one in his life to help him, what would Farmers do, just take him for a ride ? We asked them to secure the items in and around the house since he is not there and they brought a pod out....unfortunately, the valuables where not placed in this pod. Did they think these two 75-78 yr old men where to do this themselves ? Many things over months of this were robbed. Hi9s Van in the driveway was taken and they claim no responsiblity to anything. His brother took him into his own home and sent a bill for housing and living costs and now they want him to fill out this W-9 before paying any of this. They didn't ask him and had the clean up team toss out all of his clothing. Doing an inventory with an elderly man with dementia is not easy. Everytime I talk to this young agent he continually shows his anger and tells me how sick and tired he is with this whole thing and wants it over. The fire was the end of Aug and it is now Feb. 2009. Another issue was what they use to value things, here is a man with solid maple wood furniture anmd they are pricing it against WALMART, PRESS BOARD...since the fire they left all the food to rot in the refrigerators and house so they are damaged and smell so bad. They left curtains that were custom made and not burnt hanging without any attempt to clean them or even remove the debris from the fire mens trash in order to rebuild the house. You know have the right to hire your own workers.You have the right to seek estimates and average them out....Their behavior unfortunately due to the good ol boy system in this country seems to find no means for resolution. I know in most states an insurance adjustor can not bring you his own people to do the work..this is illegal. The word kick backs doesn't seem to be on anyones posts either. This is a very interesting industry and if you think it isn't look at Katrina and that happened there I know agents who made million dollar salaries in this time how is this possible with all the many claims ? You figure that out !! Wait until you seek a new policy after you have a fire or other claim.....no one will want to cover you which is stupid since the odds of your family ever having another claim are too high to even worry about........whoever started this web..I want to thank you for setting this up for validation it is wonderful.

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We had a break -in in our house that we were remodeling. Brandnew appliances worth $15,000 were stolen. when we bought the house, we clearly told our agent that we will be doing major remodeling and she did not explain any details regarding that and sold us the policy. Later when we filed claim, we were told theft during remodeling is not covered as per our policy.

FARMERS is just in business of selling you their policies but not actually helping out when the problem happens.

The document I signed to buy the policy did not mention anything about less coverage during remodel but the 50 page document they sent me later in mail after i had already bought my policy did mention that in page 20 or something.

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I got a job in california, so I left my home rented trough morris realty, and it got vandalized. since no one was living in the property for over 3 months, as if I could control that, I was denied the claim. the wals were kiked the windows were broken, thecarped and walls were taged and a sink was pulled out off the counter. if there is a lawyer that can help me fiht against FARMERS INSURANCE, I HAVE THE TIME. PLEASE HELP was planing to go see my kids as i do on the summers, but it seems this year i can only send my parents money to try to get the house in working order. last time I asked about a claim when my toilet over flowed, as soon as I told them this this is what they responded. "oh you don't have flood insurance. flood insurance". but i'm not even in a flood zone, but they don't care. please some one help. my email adress is migdelrio@gmail.com or can call 415 637 1986

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Dear Friends:
I own a rental unit. The renant moved out.It may have been two weeks before I was able to go in and clean. Lo and behold when I did the house had been flooded with nasty water everywhere. I called my Insurance immediatley. an agent came out, declared that the damage was from the roof and not an insurance matter, Two weeks latter I called again, they sent another agent He also denied the claim. In the meantime of course I was cleaning the houe mold on all walls and ceilings. I tried to use the toilet, and it flooded over, I called the insurance again with the news it was now a flooded toilet not a roof.This the third agent wrote up my claim and paid me $3700. I asked about the loss of rent for the 21/2
months of cleaning $3500.00 He wrote me a check for $1700. 1/2 of my rent. I complained to no avail. I then took it up with Washington Insurance Comm. they said their hands are tied. I received a package with Farmers response. They said that I told them the water pipes had frozen up two months earlier, as well as My roof was only a 2/12 pitch and I had no gutters. (whatever gutters have to do with a plugged toilet. I am now sending a reply to Mr. Gordon Harring to refute all the lies and inuendos they said about me Farmers letter to the WIC was written by J. Scott Lapine Customer Relations Manager National Department of Insurance and Customer Relations. However I found out the same day I received his letter, Farmers had cancelled my Insurance. I am now looking for a new Insurer. for all my properties. Thank you for this forum.

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We are still dealing with fire loss repairs from a 2006 housefire. The insurance company manipulated settlement funds through a series of ACV check revisions so that there were no repair funds we could actually deposit into the mortgage bank restricted repair escrow till after the fire loss year. This was done because the insurance company feared a lawsuit. But our attorney told Farmers he was a mediator in the situation. He helped us actually obtain what Farmers had written in files, but was being kept out of reach for repairs, while we were sent threatening letters stating that we weren't "mitigating the damages." It's got more facets than this, with the repair funds being frozen. A chimney repairman tried for over a year to get a materials deposit, finally gave up and charged $325 just for the years worth of faxes. We were told was a covered claim from the beginning. The fire required an emormous aamount of water to put out the blaze which burned for two days. The home has lathe and plaster walls, so plaster became corrupted. As it dried out, the dust settled repeatedly onto everything. There were also textured spray on ceilings with asbestos. The construction company did not conduct the interior demo till six mos after the fire. This means the asbestos was crumbling onto the main floor, onto content etc. The public adjuster told Servicemasters not to clean. Farmers says they cleaned $70,000 worth. Servicemasters says this was primarily boxing and transporting content the public adjuster said was 5/6 trash. We say it was more trash than this because Farmers has boxed asbestos saturated content for a client who has a diagnosed allergy to chemicals and solvents. We were left with so much of the work due to all the Farmers "tricks" of the trade. My husbands condition has worsened, and is now a permanent disability. Does anyone else have any problems with toxic chemicals in their fire loss? We believe we have been treated unfairly. The Farmers Insurance also uses a program called Colossus to cheapen policy values, and lower claim settlements. Make sure your home is valued for it's natural materials if you expect to claim the insurance promise of "like kind and materials." The roof went in January 2009-although the loss was in 2006. We had the home ozoned for about $1000. It's a fight to the death and we feel like nobody in that organization cares a straw about the health and safety of the insureds.

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I have had Farmers for the past 3 years and they insure my autos, boats and home. My shore station was recently pushed forward in the lake and it damaged my deck and ruined my bar. Farmers sent an adjuster who did'nt even know that the canopy came in sections and only one section was distroyed and he said that the shore station had come off of its footings and came forward to damage the deck. The footings on the shore station are part of the structure and they rest on the bottom of the lake. Before a claim is denied maybe the adjuster should know what he is talking about. Farmers writes the policies and collecects the premiums but sure does its best to deny the claims. I,m wondering why I even have home owners insurance bucause it sure does'nt help me sleep better at night.

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
February 25, 2012 06:56AM
My roof was damaged by a severe hail storm in June of 2011. All of my immediate neighbors and most of the homes on my street have had their roofs replaced because of hail damage. I called my Texas Farmers Insurance agency, who had been my insurance agent for almost 15 years for auto and home (I have never filed a single claim), and one of their representatives told me to have some roofers come out and inspect my roof to document any damages, but not to have the roofer I had picked be present when the inspector from Farmers came out to inspect the roof (because sometimes the roofer and the inspector get in each others way, and they may have arguments). I had four BBB-approved roofing companies provide me with written quotes that my roof needed to be replaced because of hail damage. Farmers sent out a woman inspector, who brought along another roofer with her. She got up on only one part of the roof, while the male roofer looked at the other areas of the roof because the roof was too steep, according to this female inspector. After the inspection, she told me that there was not enough damage to the roof from the hail that warranted replacing the roof. I contacted her supervisor at Farmers and requested another roof inspection. After submitting pictures and written testaments from my original 4 roofers, another Farmers roof inspector came to my home. This time, I had a roofer present to go up on the roof with him. This Farmers inspector left his car running, took about 5 minutes to inspect the roof, then told me that he concurred with the first inspector---that the damage to my roof was from wear and tear, and not from hail damage. He told me that he knew more than the other 4 roofing contractors did who had previously inspected my roof. I made a written complaint to the Texas Department of Insurance, and was basically told that my only recourse was to contact an attorney and sue Farmers, or to take them to small claims court. I did not have the time or effort to hassle with attorneys, so I fired Farmers and am now insured with USAA, who have an excellent reputation for taking care of its customers. Farmers Insurance should not be allowed to fraudulently rip off their loyal customers by denying claims. After investigating Farmers Insurance on the internet, I learned about the numerous complaints regarding its business practices, and class-action lawsuits. They should not be allowed to provide insurance to people, with this type of modus operandi. I will NEVER have Farmers as my insurance company again, and, given the opportunity, will tell everyone about the dishonest way I was treated by this corrupt company. Farmers does SUCK!!!!

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
March 04, 2012 12:54AM
Same story as everybody else.

I own a roofing company in the D/FW area and I also work insurance claims during CAT season.

Today I meet a Farmers field adjuster at my cousins house in the Rowlett area. I also had a 16 year vet doing home inspection there with me because he wanted to see how a insurance inspection is done. They showed up on time which was the only good thing about the inspection. Let me remind you guys/girls I look and review hundreds of hail and wind claims a year thru my company and by working as a Independent Field Adjuster. The adjuster wanted to start on the ground and walk the permise. Before we got on the roof he had agreed on paying to have the fence powered washed/restained, downspouts/gutters, 2 window screens, window casing and beading. I pointed out the window screens right off the bat just to see if he would pay for them because the degree of angle for the hail to supposley damage them is almost in possible. So I knew I was dealing with an "Green Horn".

So now to the good part!!! As a roofer and adjuster I had my 10x10 marked with 8 hits on the 6/12 slopes. I was unable to get on the hips due to the shingles and not having my Courgar Paws. I told my cousin and her husband this roof wouldnt be a problem being bought. Well I was wrong on that!! The adjuster went to all test squares and put "X" by all my circles. My friend who has been a home inspector for 16years looked at me and buy reading his lips he said what the hell is this guys looking at. This adjuster had his sunglasses on and asked me on some hits I showed him and he said no it was foot traffice and wear/tear. Clearly if you have been doing this for a number of years you know the difference between foot traffic and hail hits. So after all said and done and putting 40 X's by all my circles. He came down and told the homewoners there was no hail damage, but what he was looking at was foot traffic and wear/tear. Oh did I mention all the neighbors around them had their roofs replaced. It gets even bettter the adjuster also told my cousin husband he really didnt care if he left Farmers Ins.

So now this is going to the Appraisal process which means each party will have to pay a representive not involved in the claim.

This is my second go around with Farmers Ins on a hail claim and by working with some people (in the insurance business) that have worked there. They are told to deny as many claims as possible. This has come from Inside Adj, Unit Managers and Field Adj.

This claim will be won because no Insurance company wants to go to court!! Farmers might have the cute and funny commericals, but their practice sucks!! Insurance companies should always be in favor for the insured, but not Farmers. Statefarm and Allstate have gotten a lot better over the years. This is do to all the court litiagation that was brought on them...

Sorry this was so long!!

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Re: Trouble with Homeowners Claim
April 08, 2016 02:19AM
Not that I have put in complaints. This is totally unprofessional. I was told that oh Farmers Insurance is a cheaper insurance. I put in a claim. The adjuster David came out, took pictures and did a shallow inspection. So he said that he is going to call out an inspector, no charge to me. well the inspector Tim came out and determined that my water damage in me living room caused from about 1/4th in whole in the wall and from my sprinklers hitting the window outside. Well i have lived there for 16 years and never had water come in my house. They both said when it rains that the wind blows and force the rain to come in the 1/4 inch whole. First of all we don't get hardly any rain in CALIFORNIA. At least where we live and how do you know which way the wind blows when it does blow. The inspector came in my house with a water meter, some areas yes water other places no water.
my POINT, he didnt pull no tile, break no walls and your going to tell me that its the sprinklers and a 1/4 inch hole. MAKE ME LAUGH. On top of that
when I called in the claim the agent there told me BEWARE your DEDUCTABLE is 2500.00. You might want to put that in consideration while your putting in a claim. It is totally up to me if I want to pay my deductable. Then David kept telling Tim well I think it is coming from the sprinklers, like he is telling Tim that is what you say. I cannot wait to change my insurance. YOU DO WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

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xactimate pricing is not the prob, its missing line items....no one in southern california should be taking a pay out without speaking to a jenesis advisor anyways. www.jenesisnewbeginnings.com
these guys will tell you exactly how much your claim is worth... jenesis group contractors are the best by far. homeowner friendly.

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